Can an AWD Magna do donuts? (A bit silly, but genuine thread)

[Oggy]

EDIT: Please, don't post spam/crap/pointless messages. I'd like to seriously brainstorm these ideas and I value the experience and help of AMC members. "You hoon" is not helpful, so please don't say it.

Hi guys,

Firstly, the legal stuff - I'm not condoning, promoting or participating in illegal (and hopefully not even stupid) behaviour, the target here is motorsport and knowing the limits of our cars.
I realise that this forum could be read by any person of any age, so please remember, the best place you can learn advanced driving skills is in the controlled environments provided in defensive or advanced driving and even racing courses.
Please do not do anything that even might be illegal.

Now the real question, as per the thread title, can the AWD magna do donuts? Yes it can.

I've been curious if the Magna would have enough power to do AWD burnouts/donuts suitable for burnout competitions like those occasionally held at Eastern Creek.
I think it would be funny if it could be done - I'm sure the crowd would be derisive of an obviously FWD vehicle entering a burnout comp (they normally are) but imagine the surprise if it lights up all 4 wheels and spins on a central axis!
I loved seeing World Rally drivers celebrate at the end of some races!

I have also been interested in track days and the Eastern Creek skid pan to find the capabilities or limits of my 2003 TJ AWD Magna Sports.

I recently had the opportunity to use a private and sealed surface skid pan to test out some of the possibilities.
This was wet bitumen on an almost smooth texture - smooth enough for a skateboard.
Unfortunately the area was a bit small and the Magna had too much grip to find the limits of handling - ie: if I exceeded the limits, it would be at a speed too dangerous and probably hit something - need a much bigger area for this, so testing on the skid pan at EC is still an option.

But then I tried to do some donuts. I already knew that in the wet the car could power oversteer, but from a straight line launch it cannot break traction, so I wasn't sure what to expect.
Well gee was I surprised when on my first attempt the car broke into a long sideways slide before spinning round twice on a dime in a small cloud of smoke. I don't know if it was just spinning rears or 3 or 4 wheels. Does anyone else know what the Magna AWD does? I'm assuming it was spinning 3 since the front diff is open.

So, yes it is possible.
Now I didn't try again because there was little point. Next I have to think if I'll pursue this type of motorsport / demonstration further, I'll have to carry out more testing with observers and video camera(s), but I know that I would love to enter an AWD vehicle in a burnout comp.

The last issue I have is grip - I think that in the dry, there will be too much traction. Does anyone know if there are any rules in burnout comps? I can't imagine that there would be so in that case, what's the narrowest + cheapest tyre that would fit my factory 16x6 rims? I know I'll be talking to my favourite tyre retailers about this if I continue with the idea.

Oh, and learning to control the Magna in that crazy spinning environment would be a challenge, so finding another legal and safe place to practice might be important, just one that's bigger.


So again, the idea of burnouts and donuts is not a sensible one and definitely not something for the streets, but I think that in controlled places like Powercruise and Burnout competitions, it's a valid form of entertainment.
So please keep any responses out of the 'hoon' mentality and more on the knowledge and valid entertainment aspects as I would like to hear, in that light, what your opinions are.

Cheers,
Oggy.

[MicJaiy]

inb4 hoon and grow up.

id be looking for smaller rims too if they fit over the AWD brakes

14 or 15". ask a tyre place what's the narrowest tyre that can fit on one of those rims.

[FFEEkY]

Well the evo out of fast and the furious 3 could do it, so i dont see why not. Perhaps you could hook the handbrake up to the front left wheel only?

[Disciple]

F&F Evo as mentioned was converted to 2wd, but it's easy enough to make even a standard AWD Evo do burnouts, but a 1700kg sedan like an AWD Magna with the power it has - I don't think so.

[GT-Pete]

Yesterday I had the Prado on the beach (yes this was a legal 4WD beach for anyone asking), and it did quite decent donuts (in low 4WD mode)..... but obviously the conditions were what allowed it to do that.........

AWD Magna....... probably not enough power unless you had oil or something down on some tarmac

[zero]

I've removed some posts that were spam or of no real help.

[Oggy]

Hi guys, try and keep any replies sensible, I'm serious about this and don't need comments that don't add value and the mods don't need to be sweeping up all the time. If you've got nothing good/helpful to say, then don't even type into that box!


I'd like to add that this car can't be modified too much.

It is a road car first, not a dedicated burnout demonstration track car.
It will eventually get some exhaust mods and probably a postal SKR re-tuned ECU, but that's about the limit for power changes.
For suspension it will have a thicker rear sway bar and new springs. Koni adjustable shocks most likely if the current shocks need replacing. I think I'll make sway bar + springs a requirement before I do any more testing - a flatter car should spin better and hopefully allow better control.

Note: There is no way in hell that I would intentionally pop a tyre. I don't need to risk panel damage that much.



More on the "how to do it/can I do it" thing:
I've got a set of 17x7" mags that currently have smaller diameter, but wider 215/50/17 rubber on. These would effectively lower the gearing of the car, but the diameter is only 2.7% or 17.5mm smaller so not a big difference.
Has anyone experimented with smaller diameter tyres and know if they are easier to brake traction? This applies to any car.
Maybe I need to get short and narrow tyres onto the stock or light weight rims to be able to reliably break traction in the AWD?
What's the 'smallest' car that has a 5-stud wheel that matches our bolt patterns?

I just thought about starting a donut with a scandinavian flick, so this is now on my list of things to test.
Hopefully I can find the right test track/skid pan to see if this is possible on a dry surface, and just how much space it needs to get started and even if the AWD Magna can do this in the dry.

Does anyone know what the burnout pad road surface is like and how big it is? I guess size would be dependant on the location.
I just thought that with all that burnt rubber being put down that maybe it will be sticky like the burnout tracks that high-end drag racers use for their launch and this might make it even harder to start and maintain wheel spin.

This is going to be months in the planning I think, but after a couple of days I'm still interested.

If anyone knows of any websites/forums where dedicated burnout machines are discussed, please let me know.
On a forum I used to hang out at was a guy with a Gemini in S.A. that did this - the prize money was actually pretty good too!

I'm assuming that Summernats still have a burnout comp, I'll lookup details of them on-line tonight, but are there any other burnout comps that are held closer to Sydney? Do they still do them at the WSID off-street meets?

Cheers!
Graham.

[Oggy]

id be looking for smaller rims too if they fit over the AWD brakes
14 or 15". ask a tyre place what's the narrowest tyre that can fit on one of those rims.

MicJaiy, thanks for that - the AWD has the same larger brakes as the Ralliart, so I'm thinking that the 16" rims would be the smallest, but I'll have a look at the clearance between caliper and rim - maybe there could be enough space for 15"s to work.

[Oggy]

Ffeeky + Life could be onto something.

I've seen Skyline GTRs at the drag strip do a rear wheel burnout and then a AWD launch - something electronic to make the centre diff distribute all drive to the rear wheels only.
But I think the magna has purely mechanical diffs, so that might be limited.

A handbrake on 1 front wheel could be interesting but also scarey while parking on the night More thinking on this will happen in my head.


Ooh, I just remembered and don't know why it hasn't been suggested. A transmission cooler will go on before further testing also!

Are there any other considerations for reliability?
What's the Magna's cooling system like? Does anyone with a 3.5L have overheating in summer?

Cheers!
Graham.

[GRDPuck]

...but are there any other burnout comps that are held closer to Sydney?...

Try calling a couple of the speedways - Parramatta & maybe a couple of the smaller country ones.
The Avalon speedway in Geelong (Vic) has a burnout skidpan in the middle. No good to you, but made me think some of the other speedways may too.